Hi everyone I came to this website the other day to see if it was back and was shocked to see that y'all are making your own game! About time! You guys really know how to turn code into a great experience. It is cool to see some familiar faces too, not sure if anyone actually remembers me but if you do, HI!
To my next point though, I probably among some other people on this site miss citywars and wish we could play it just for some nostalgia in our lives. I have an old dual xeon server that I don't really use or have any plans for so i was wondering if you guys still had all of your plugins for an older mc version (1.2.5 was my personal favorite) if you would be interested in sharing them with me and I, along with anyone that had any interest could relax with some old cw. I know this is probably a long shot and I completely understand if you wouldn't feel comfortable doing this, but if you did I would love to share cw minecraft with new friends and reconnect with old friends.
Thanks guys and I really hope cw savage turns out to be a great hit and you guys get the recognition you deserve for creating such fun games. I personally cannot wait to try it myself!
Hi
Hi
by , 2018-10-07 13:24:44
by , 2018-10-12 13:40:48
Hello RuthlessMiner, Thanks a lot for your comment it's really apreciate :D
I wanted to write all in detail the many reason why we won't release the server to explain to everyone what happen exactly but it been already 2 day that i started in my free time writing every detail and there so much to detail that i am still not finished this huge text and i fear i miss time before the end of the week to finish it so in case i don't have the time to finish the detail explication here the short and quick version. (Witch is still a long one but so much smaller than my other one xD)
-Citywars Minecraft is really really old. Like before bukkit old. It was developed on Hey0 and then was converted for bukkit. It survive every update of minecraft by being patched until we stop developing. Every minecraft update has made this plugin a bit more complicate. It been patched so many time that the plugin code is really messy. So everytime something require to be fixed it need more time then a regular plugin since its so big and so old with everything patched everywhere.
-Citywars Minecraft is not a plug in plug out plugin. It has is own infrastructure and require all of them to be working properly. Moving the plugin is quite tedious. Everything was custom made for our need and a lot of is composent are non standar in the industrie. We had a implemented socket server, a lot of tool like google map generator, its own list of custom librairie and event our forum was directly build in the plugin. You can't just drag and drop a single file into your computer. It require a lot of stuff and configuration to make it work properly.
-The plugin is completely incompatible with other plugin. Me and link didn't need any kind of other plugin and for security citywars will take first priority of action over any other plugin. By example in the end of citywars we converted our donation to buycraft witch required to be manually override to allow citywars to work with.
-The server is not just a simple bukkit plugin but a custom modified bukkit itself. Since with always loved cheating minecraft and having awesome and special command we needed to have freedom than other regular plugin. Which lead to creating our own modified version of bukkit. Making the server event more complicate to fix and update but this is one of the main reason why citywars minecraft was always being the first updated with the new version of minecraft
-Event if you would had everything working you wouldn't be able to administer it without editing the code. After a massive raid from a popular group of hacker in our beginning we bind our minecraft account to all our most important administrative command. This way no one else expect us can use those command inside Citywars. So if your not called Darkirby3 or Linkupdated you won't have access to any important command.
-Also contrary to other plugin all admin command have 0 mistake protection. By example User command are 100% noob proof, You can use them without crashing the server or damaging anything. Staff command are common sense proof, They can crash the server if abused but not dangerous for the server. Admin command in the other hand has no protection at all. One mistake and you risk to destroy half the server. These command have full control over what you can do but it also make them really difficult and dangerous for beginner user. There is no documentation of any sort so even if you know how to run a server you will have no way to know your doing making your chance to cause a mess pretty hight. If you remember Kryptic destroying half the map with a huge block of wool that the kind of problem that will happen to you. One misspelled command and you will destroy the whole server.
-At one time we had plan to release the server on github for those who would like to fix it. But with Citywars Savage we plan to use some of our old code to make the development faster and since it can interfere with our future publishing contract we put this project on hold the time we sign our contract for Citywars Savage. So maybe in the future who knows
-The server will also require a lot of work to be fixed. Citywars Minecraft had huge memory leak issue in its core. If you remember we had to restart every hours because of this important issue. This is something we never figured out how to fix. At the epoch we know the server had this issue but where not able to understand what was wrong. We rebuild huge part of the plugin in the hope to fix this issue but trying to fix a memory leak is like chasing ghost. You are never truly sure if what you did helped or did the opposite since it's hard to know what is going on. At this epoch we didn't have the tool we have today. We learn last year working on Citywars Savage that our request to sql was not perfect for the kind of utilisation we were doing. Java was unable to unlink them after utilisation resulting in is garbage collector being unable to collect them. Since 95% of Citywars Minecraft was using sql to store its information the problem of memory leak was in the core of its plugin. That why we were unable to figure out what was wrong since everything was a small piece of the problem.
-With a lot of work ultimately this server can be put back on is feet. But... What people forget is that Citywars Minecraft is a social experience. Your stuck in a really difficult circle to break. Without anyone playing, there is not much to do on the server resulting in less player playing it. This is a serious issue that people forget when it's time to talk about running Citywars Minecraft.
-Publicity for minecraft become incredibly difficult with time. I remember the price was increasing every month. Making it really expensive to maintain advertisement. So i don't even imagine the price today. There was a time where we would spend 5000 $ for a single month of advertisement. Without advertising your server won't even exist on the map. This is what make the difference between indie server and commercial one. Having a bunch of player online cost a lot of money.
-Citywars Minecraft is also a old school server. New generation of minecrafter prefer quick and fast gameplay who require almost no investment in time. Citywars is the complete opposite. It's a really awesome experience when you take the time to invest into it. It was one of the reason why we decide to put a stop on the project. It would have required major modification in the plugin to adapt to this new era. The plugin was simply too big to redo a full rewap. We did try a comprime in the end but it was not enough to save the situation.
Another reason why we decide to stop working on Citywars minecraft was the purchase of minecraft by Microsoft. I am really surprise that Minecraft is still in good shape until today with Microsoft on its lead. Lets just said that Microsoft doesn't have a good reputation when its come to is other acquisition. At the epoch when the purchase happened the future of minecraft was really uncertain. So we decide to take a break of it. Then we started our own business which quickly become our new priority
The money we made with our business was fully invested in Citywars Savage allowing us still today to spend time developing this project. We know this adventure will be a difficult one but it feel like if me and link have been preparate all our life for this moment. Everything we have done until today give us the tool and experience to create our very own game.
So... is why we would prefer invest our time into developing our new game instead of fixing a old plugin. I know a lot of people are sad that we don't release the plugin or fix it and i am sorry this. I hope you guys will understand why me and link prefer to spend our time into this new project. But still i am really proud to see that many people miss our previous projet You guys give us the courage to continue our epic journey.
And against thanks a lot for your comment !
I wanted to write all in detail the many reason why we won't release the server to explain to everyone what happen exactly but it been already 2 day that i started in my free time writing every detail and there so much to detail that i am still not finished this huge text and i fear i miss time before the end of the week to finish it so in case i don't have the time to finish the detail explication here the short and quick version. (Witch is still a long one but so much smaller than my other one xD)
-Citywars Minecraft is really really old. Like before bukkit old. It was developed on Hey0 and then was converted for bukkit. It survive every update of minecraft by being patched until we stop developing. Every minecraft update has made this plugin a bit more complicate. It been patched so many time that the plugin code is really messy. So everytime something require to be fixed it need more time then a regular plugin since its so big and so old with everything patched everywhere.
-Citywars Minecraft is not a plug in plug out plugin. It has is own infrastructure and require all of them to be working properly. Moving the plugin is quite tedious. Everything was custom made for our need and a lot of is composent are non standar in the industrie. We had a implemented socket server, a lot of tool like google map generator, its own list of custom librairie and event our forum was directly build in the plugin. You can't just drag and drop a single file into your computer. It require a lot of stuff and configuration to make it work properly.
-The plugin is completely incompatible with other plugin. Me and link didn't need any kind of other plugin and for security citywars will take first priority of action over any other plugin. By example in the end of citywars we converted our donation to buycraft witch required to be manually override to allow citywars to work with.
-The server is not just a simple bukkit plugin but a custom modified bukkit itself. Since with always loved cheating minecraft and having awesome and special command we needed to have freedom than other regular plugin. Which lead to creating our own modified version of bukkit. Making the server event more complicate to fix and update but this is one of the main reason why citywars minecraft was always being the first updated with the new version of minecraft
-Event if you would had everything working you wouldn't be able to administer it without editing the code. After a massive raid from a popular group of hacker in our beginning we bind our minecraft account to all our most important administrative command. This way no one else expect us can use those command inside Citywars. So if your not called Darkirby3 or Linkupdated you won't have access to any important command.
-Also contrary to other plugin all admin command have 0 mistake protection. By example User command are 100% noob proof, You can use them without crashing the server or damaging anything. Staff command are common sense proof, They can crash the server if abused but not dangerous for the server. Admin command in the other hand has no protection at all. One mistake and you risk to destroy half the server. These command have full control over what you can do but it also make them really difficult and dangerous for beginner user. There is no documentation of any sort so even if you know how to run a server you will have no way to know your doing making your chance to cause a mess pretty hight. If you remember Kryptic destroying half the map with a huge block of wool that the kind of problem that will happen to you. One misspelled command and you will destroy the whole server.
-At one time we had plan to release the server on github for those who would like to fix it. But with Citywars Savage we plan to use some of our old code to make the development faster and since it can interfere with our future publishing contract we put this project on hold the time we sign our contract for Citywars Savage. So maybe in the future who knows
-The server will also require a lot of work to be fixed. Citywars Minecraft had huge memory leak issue in its core. If you remember we had to restart every hours because of this important issue. This is something we never figured out how to fix. At the epoch we know the server had this issue but where not able to understand what was wrong. We rebuild huge part of the plugin in the hope to fix this issue but trying to fix a memory leak is like chasing ghost. You are never truly sure if what you did helped or did the opposite since it's hard to know what is going on. At this epoch we didn't have the tool we have today. We learn last year working on Citywars Savage that our request to sql was not perfect for the kind of utilisation we were doing. Java was unable to unlink them after utilisation resulting in is garbage collector being unable to collect them. Since 95% of Citywars Minecraft was using sql to store its information the problem of memory leak was in the core of its plugin. That why we were unable to figure out what was wrong since everything was a small piece of the problem.
-With a lot of work ultimately this server can be put back on is feet. But... What people forget is that Citywars Minecraft is a social experience. Your stuck in a really difficult circle to break. Without anyone playing, there is not much to do on the server resulting in less player playing it. This is a serious issue that people forget when it's time to talk about running Citywars Minecraft.
-Publicity for minecraft become incredibly difficult with time. I remember the price was increasing every month. Making it really expensive to maintain advertisement. So i don't even imagine the price today. There was a time where we would spend 5000 $ for a single month of advertisement. Without advertising your server won't even exist on the map. This is what make the difference between indie server and commercial one. Having a bunch of player online cost a lot of money.
-Citywars Minecraft is also a old school server. New generation of minecrafter prefer quick and fast gameplay who require almost no investment in time. Citywars is the complete opposite. It's a really awesome experience when you take the time to invest into it. It was one of the reason why we decide to put a stop on the project. It would have required major modification in the plugin to adapt to this new era. The plugin was simply too big to redo a full rewap. We did try a comprime in the end but it was not enough to save the situation.
Another reason why we decide to stop working on Citywars minecraft was the purchase of minecraft by Microsoft. I am really surprise that Minecraft is still in good shape until today with Microsoft on its lead. Lets just said that Microsoft doesn't have a good reputation when its come to is other acquisition. At the epoch when the purchase happened the future of minecraft was really uncertain. So we decide to take a break of it. Then we started our own business which quickly become our new priority
The money we made with our business was fully invested in Citywars Savage allowing us still today to spend time developing this project. We know this adventure will be a difficult one but it feel like if me and link have been preparate all our life for this moment. Everything we have done until today give us the tool and experience to create our very own game.
So... is why we would prefer invest our time into developing our new game instead of fixing a old plugin. I know a lot of people are sad that we don't release the plugin or fix it and i am sorry this. I hope you guys will understand why me and link prefer to spend our time into this new project. But still i am really proud to see that many people miss our previous projet You guys give us the courage to continue our epic journey.
And against thanks a lot for your comment !
by , 2018-10-13 11:39:29
WOW! Firstly I'd like to thank you for taking the time to make such a detailed response to my post. It was quite a lot so I'd like to address a couple different things within your response.
I fully respect you and link's decision to want to keep the server private to yourselves and it makes sense that you guys would. I would have never known the state of the Citywars Minecraft code without your response and hopefully enough people read through this forum post and take out of it what I did. I completely understand from a business model that once Microsoft bought out Minecraft how you would want to move away from that platform and if I was in your shoes I probably would have done the same. I hope I wasn't too out of line asking in my original post.
Onto the new game! you said that " with Citywars Savage we plan to use some of our old code". That sounds awesome to me and I am hoping Citywars Savage is able to encapsulate some of the greatest attributes that Citywars Minecraft had. It is so awesome to hear that you guys are taking this project so seriously and I am glad that my comment among the others has given you guys motivation!
Once again I'd just like to say that I'm really looking forward to seeing more from Citywars Savage!!
I fully respect you and link's decision to want to keep the server private to yourselves and it makes sense that you guys would. I would have never known the state of the Citywars Minecraft code without your response and hopefully enough people read through this forum post and take out of it what I did. I completely understand from a business model that once Microsoft bought out Minecraft how you would want to move away from that platform and if I was in your shoes I probably would have done the same. I hope I wasn't too out of line asking in my original post.
Onto the new game! you said that " with Citywars Savage we plan to use some of our old code". That sounds awesome to me and I am hoping Citywars Savage is able to encapsulate some of the greatest attributes that Citywars Minecraft had. It is so awesome to hear that you guys are taking this project so seriously and I am glad that my comment among the others has given you guys motivation!
Once again I'd just like to say that I'm really looking forward to seeing more from Citywars Savage!!
by , 2018-10-15 15:53:26
No problem it's always a pleasure to answer everyone.
Yes we want to recreate many feature of Citywars Minecraft into Citywars Savage. You will be able to administrate your city and get citizen living in them. These system will probably be redone from scratch since they are pretty old but some part of the plugin like vimon can be used and integrated inside Citywars Savage.
When we build vimon we had already planned to create this section of Citywars Minecraft fully convertible in case we wanted to create our own game one day.
It's not from yesterday that we dream to one day create a game. We just needed the tool and the experience to achieve what we wanted.
Yes we want to recreate many feature of Citywars Minecraft into Citywars Savage. You will be able to administrate your city and get citizen living in them. These system will probably be redone from scratch since they are pretty old but some part of the plugin like vimon can be used and integrated inside Citywars Savage.
When we build vimon we had already planned to create this section of Citywars Minecraft fully convertible in case we wanted to create our own game one day.
It's not from yesterday that we dream to one day create a game. We just needed the tool and the experience to achieve what we wanted.
